An interview with the director of the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Armenian National Academy of  Sciences, Academician RUBEN SAFRASTYAN

– How would you assess Turkey’s actions in this war? I am deliberately bypassing Azerbaijan because, as all the facts have shown, its participation and aspirations are subordinated to the interests of a bigger “player”.

– Since the beginning of this war, I have said that Turkey aimed, first of all, to weaken Armenia by continuing its genocidal policy. What Turkey is doing against Artsakh is a blow to the Republic of Armenia. And the abolition of the Republic of Armenia was Ataturk’s goal in November of 1920. The secret decree given to Karabekir Pasha literally states that Armenia must be eliminated. “It is impossible for Armenia, which is at the center of a large Muslim circle, to relinquish its responsibility to this cruel gendarme with heartfelt conviction and decide to link its fortune entirely with Turkish Islam. Therefore, there is an absolute need for Armenia to be eliminated politically and materially. ”

Erdogan is currently pursuing that policy. At the moment, he has not been able to legally deploy troops to our region with Russian peacekeepers. I am convinced that Erdogan did not abandon his plan.

– As it is known, he still accommodates Syrian mercenaries in the territories under the control of Artsakh, Azerbaijan.

-Yes, he places them in these regions so that he can use them at any time. Of course, mercenaries have no right to be there, but there are still thousands of mercenaries in Azerbaijan today. I think by deploying mercenaries there, Turkey is opening a new trade “table” with Russia and Iran, which are demanding that those mercenaries be removed. At this stage, Turkey’s main goal is to deploy its troops together with the Russian peacekeeping forces along the Artsakh border. This policy pursued by him will also be expressed against Armenia with various pressures and provocations. Provocations in the direction of Meghri and Syunik on the border with Nakhichevan are not ruled out. These will be carried out by the Azerbaijanis, and in the rest by Turkey itself. So, we do not have “easy” times. We must be ready for more provocations by Turkey. Loss of vigilance is inadmissible. The war is not over.

– Even with a simple glance, there are many parallels between the genocide “a reality these days” that took place exactly one hundred years ago. Weapons and armaments seem to have just changed, and the methods are the same. Criminal, genocidal signature, the same. As a Turkologist, how would you assess the actions of the Turkish-Azerbaijani tandem? Turkey did its best in time not to officially recognize the Armenian Genocide. He thus legitimized the possibility of his new crimes against humanity, which we are witnessing today.

– Erdogan not only falsifies the historical facts, but, yes, at present he actually continues the policy of genocide, not recognizing the existence of that grave crime. It is a fact that in many cases Turkey manages to “find common ground” with different countries, to turn a blind eye to its actions. And the criminal nature of the actions of his willful Azerbaijan has been proved by numerous facts by the Human Rights Defenders of Azerbaijan. These can be legally described not only as massive human rights violations – crimes against human rights, but also as acts of genocide. These days, the desecration and destruction of the civilized values ​​created by the Armenian people in their homeland has already begun. These are already specific genocidal acts. There are also many facts when Armenian civilians fall into the hands of Azeris and are subjected to inhuman torture. The fact that a person is brutally killed for being Armenian can be described as a genocidal act. All these crimes that have been committed and are still being committed are being documented.

– What reaction did we get from different countries during this period? What conclusions can we draw?

– Experience has shown that in reality only Russia is our real ally in the region. And we must bring our allied relations with Russia to a much higher level in the military, military-political, as well as in the analytical and intelligence spheres.

– How would you comment on the recent riots in European countries, of which Erdogan was not ambitious? As we have seen, with the flick of a finger he managed to carry out certain terrorist acts involving Islamist extremist groups. What was the challenge for Europe, what was the response?

– Currently, Erdogan’s inner circle is working toward creating a confederation of 61 Muslim countries, with Istanbul as its capital. And there is usually little talk about the work being led by people around Erdogan, who hold annual conferences. In the light of these recent events, it is becoming clear that Erdogan is trying to become the leader of the Muslim world. This is a newly activated direction in Turkish politics. Erdogan is trying to push aside prominent Islamic leaders in the Arab world, looking for allies, such as Pakistan. We know that from the 16th century until 1924, the leader of the Islamic world, the caliph, was the Turkish sultan. Khalif means the representative of Allah, the successor on earth. The first caliph was Muhammad.  At the beginning of the 16th century, the Turkish sultan forcibly became the caliph, that is, the leader of the Islamic world. Ataturk abolished the position of caliph, and now the Islamic world does not have a caliph, an authoritative leader. Turkey is now trying to push aside Saudi Arabia, which also aspires to be a leader in the Islamic world, Egypt, which enjoys great prestige and, by cooperating with Pakistan, to become the most powerful country in the Islamic world. Let’s not forget that Pakistan has a nuclear weapon, which is declared a “Muslim nuclear bomb”.

And serious work is being done in this direction all over the world. The purpose of turning Hagia Sophia into a mosque in public, in front of the eyes of the whole world, was to show the Muslim world, to other countries, and see what we can do.

Turkey cooperates with the Muslim Brotherhood, one of the extremist Muslim organizations. It is an organization that came to power for some time, for example in Egypt, but was soon removed from power. Since then, relations between Turkey and Egypt have deteriorated sharply. The “Muslim Brotherhood” now operates in many countries around the world. Its members undergo strong ideological training. Today, Turkey is trying to act as a sponsor of this organization and use it to implement its programs in the Muslim world.

– Let’s come to European countries. Turkey has its own organization of “Gray Wolves”, which operate under the auspices of cultural and educational centers.

– Their members are tens of thousands of Turks, who at the same time “propagate Pan-Turkic ideology” in those countries, and at the same time try to become organizations attracting refugees from different Muslim countries to Europe, so that they will eventually be led by Turkey. This is a policy that is reflected in many European countries. As I mentioned, in the Islamic world, too, Turkey is striving to become a leader, to assert its position in order to put pressure on Europe and the West. It still succeeds in this, but theyu are slowly beginning to realize this Turkish danger in Europe. As we know, first Austria, but recently France, banned the activities of the “Gray Wolves”. There is information that this issue is being discussed in Germany. And most importantly, it is already known that these organizations are run from Ankara by the Turkish intelligence.

– It seems that they are delaying. What is this., a result of underestimating the risk?

– They are very well informed. I’m sure the counterintelligence has full control over that data. Maybe they are not fully aware of the scale of the danger. There is information that the members of the “Gray Wolves” organization are trying to enter the state structures of European countries, to carry out their actions from those positions. Turks now number several million in Europe. Of course, it is difficult to say for sure.

-Recently, we have received calls from our compatriots living in several European countries, particularly in Austria and Germany, that they are receiving life-threatening letters from the “Gray Wolves”. What are the terrorists trying to achieve with this?

– Yes, it was confirmed that especially in these two countries, Armenians receive letters containing racist threats. Another testimony of the genocide manuscript, this time in Europe.

– How would you explain such a deep hatred of the Turks, especially towards the Armenians? The Azerbaijani society is still being falsified as a propaganda food at school at the state level, and hostility is being sown. Meanwhile, our nation, which has suffered genocide, massacres and deprivation, does not pursue such a policy of hatred.

– This phenomenon, which is widespread in Turkey and Azerbaijan, must be viewed from a political and ideological point of view. We, with our historical territories, seem to be a wedge or a wall that hinders the implementation of Turkey’s pan-Turkic programs. Ataturk, for example, used the term “Armenian wall” in this regard. And another tool, the hatred sown, replenishes their propaganda arsenal by instilling in these societies a corresponding attitude towards the Armenians who have allegedly occupied their historical lands. This propaganda is being sown in an extremely aggressive way, especially in the Azerbaijani society. A new story is being written in which Armenia has not been. At the same time, Azerbaijan is writing and telling the false history of its country to its people. This is used to justify their aggressive and racist actions in the eyes of their own peoples. The inhumane actions of the Azerbaijani military against the Armenians during the recent war on the grounds of hatred are a vivid manifestation of this.

– The war is not over, of course, we all understand well. What developments are expected?

– I think that Turkey will continue its pan-Turkic policy, which it planned during the years of the Young Turks. And this is a great danger for all the countries and states on the Turan road that he has drawn and presented. So, it is in the common interest of the international community to stop Turkey’s aspirations and assess its anti-human actions.

By KNAR TADEVOSYAN